Erica Bryant and The Department of Dream Collection
In this episode, we sit down with collage and mixed media artist Erica Bryant to explore the mysterious terrain of dreams and how they show up in our waking lives. Erica shares how her fascination with vivid dream imagery led her to start capturing not only her own dreams, but the dreamscapes of others — turning the ephemeral into tangible works of art. We talk about what it means to honor the unconscious, how dreams shape identity, and why they often leave us with more questions than answers. This conversation is a celebration of intuition, inner worlds, and the messy beauty of translating the surreal into something you can hold in your hands.
Erica's newest exhibition, Other People's Dreams, will be on display at RoCo Upstairs at the Rochester Contemporary Art Center from June 6 - 14, 2025.
Find more info at https://www.rochestercontemporary.org/exhibitions/other-peoples-dreams/
Mentioned in this episode:
Joe Bean Roasters
Joe Bean Coffee - Coffee that lifts everyone. https://shop.joebeanroasters.com
Dialed In: A Coffee Podcast
Get Dialed In to the world of coffee with Aaron and Wade! Tastings, coffee news and opinion and more! https://dialedincoffee.captivate.fm
Transcript
About the.
Speaker B:Put everyone to sleep.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Welcome back to the show.
Speaker B:Thank you for tuning into behind the Studio Door.
Speaker B:I'm your host, Molly Darling, along with my co host and his gravelly voice, Christian Rivera.
Speaker A:Hi.
Speaker A:I'm here.
Speaker A:We're podcasting.
Speaker A:This is important.
Speaker A:You know that guy that does, like the theater?
Speaker A:Like, silence your phones.
Speaker A:Like, I feel like I'm that guy right now.
Speaker A:Silence your phone.
Speaker A:Don't talk, don't text.
Speaker B:Don't ruin the movie.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Don't go away.
Speaker A:Listen to this entire podcast.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Enjoy it.
Speaker B:And speaking of people who never go away, our producer Chris Lindstrom is here.
Speaker C:I'm always here.
Speaker C:I don't leave, considering this is my house.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:We have him chained to a chair and we show up and we're like, podcast for us now.
Speaker C:It is a comfortable chair, but a little bit.
Speaker C:That's a little bit harrowing.
Speaker A:We can get you a cushion.
Speaker C:That was a long tail.
Speaker A:That was.
Speaker B:That was a very long tail.
Speaker C:That's a lot of tail.
Speaker A:That really hung for a second.
Speaker B:That was like a nightmare.
Speaker C:Shout out to Matt Vanderly.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:Speaking of nightmares.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:And dreams.
Speaker B:So I'm so excited to have Erica Bryant here today.
Speaker B:Erica Bryant.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:You interrupted it, but thank you.
Speaker D:Sorry.
Speaker A:Meta destruction.
Speaker B:Anyway, my life.
Speaker B:Early in life, Erica Bryant dreamt that she was the spiritual leader of a group of alligator human baby creatures, which sounds amazing.
Speaker B:She awoke with an enduring love of dream imagery and concepts.
Speaker B:Through art, she seeks to honor and preserve the untethered creations of the unconscious.
Speaker B:With collage and mixed media, she recreates dreams dreamt by all sorts of people.
Speaker B:Welcome to the show, Eric.
Speaker D:Thank you.
Speaker A:Yay.
Speaker A:Welcome.
Speaker B:That is quite an introduction.
Speaker A:Maybe baby alligators.
Speaker A:Baby alligators, yes.
Speaker B:First, tell me.
Speaker B:I want to know a little more about this dream.
Speaker B:First of all, if you wouldn't mind starting with that and, like, how it made you feel to have this dream.
Speaker D:For sure.
Speaker D:I dreamed this, like, 20 years ago, and I was swimming in a very nice Caribbean sea of some sort.
Speaker D:It was very beautiful, and I was happy.
Speaker D:And then all of a sudden, I realized that I was surrounded by these alligators with human baby heads.
Speaker D:And I was like, oh, shit, this is bad.
Speaker D:I probably should get out of the water.
Speaker D:But then I didn't want to go quickly because I thought they'd noticed me because they didn't seem to have been.
Speaker D:Had noticed me yet.
Speaker D:They were just swimming around.
Speaker D:So I very.
Speaker D:I don't know, slowly and stealthily kind of made my way to the shore.
Speaker D:And then finally I was like, oh, I can make a break for it.
Speaker D:So then I rushed out of the water and.
Speaker D:And then they notice me and they come after me and they're.
Speaker D:And then I'm standing at the water and then I realize in my brain, I'm like, oh, okay, I'm supposed to be the spiritual leader of these alligator, human, baby creatures.
Speaker B:And then I love how it's instantly like, oh, I get this.
Speaker B:Yeah, I'm here, spiritual leader.
Speaker B:That's the logical conclusion.
Speaker A:Well, that's how most people do it.
Speaker A:They go from fear to suddenly like, you know what?
Speaker A:Actually, I can control everyone.
Speaker B:Guru.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:And so I woke up and I was just like, what?
Speaker D:Like, why would I dream that?
Speaker D:That makes no sense at all.
Speaker D:Because I don't.
Speaker D:I'm not a person who would be like, I'm supposed to be the spiritual leader of anybody or, you know, or leader really of anything.
Speaker D:I don't like leadership.
Speaker D:And so, yeah, it's the spiritual leader.
Speaker A:Part that's the weird part of the dream.
Speaker B:Well, no, I mean the alligator headed alligator people.
Speaker D:That's.
Speaker D:That's funny you bring that up because actually that didn't.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:That was like, I'm not.
Speaker D:That's like, that's fine.
Speaker A:That is what it is.
Speaker D:That is something that would, in my head, like alligator, human, baby hybrids.
Speaker D:But yeah, so I woke, but it was just like the feeling of certainty and this is like, this is what I'm supposed to be doing.
Speaker D:And just that kind of feeling.
Speaker D:And then I was like.
Speaker D:And then I also really did like the imagery.
Speaker D:And I was like, whoa.
Speaker D:And then I had always really dug dreams.
Speaker D:Like, I liked for people to tell me what their dreams were, or I liked my own dreams.
Speaker D:I would always write them down.
Speaker D:But that dream was a dream where it's like, wow, there's dreams.
Speaker D:There's something going on there that I'm really, really interested in.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, that makes sense.
Speaker B:And then how far after having that dream did you start making art about dreams?
Speaker D:Oh, that's a very long time.
Speaker D:I guess you would say probably like 15 years.
Speaker D:Because I was never a person that made art.
Speaker D:I think in elementary school, I was kind of turned off from it because I thought art was that you had to be able to draw still life fruit.
Speaker B:And that's what a lot of people think it's supposed to be.
Speaker D:And I could not.
Speaker D:I still cannot draw.
Speaker D:Like, if I draw a bowl of fruit, it's not gonna look anything like a bowl of fruit.
Speaker D:And so I didn't never.
Speaker D:I Never thought.
Speaker D:Saw that as a way to express, you know, my human experience.
Speaker D:But then I was a writer.
Speaker D:I was a newspaper reporter for like 16 years.
Speaker D:And that was how I got my creative energy out.
Speaker D:And I always saw myself as sort of painting pictures with words when I would write about these events or write about people or things like that.
Speaker D:And then when I left that job, it was a long story, like family reasons.
Speaker D:We moved to Florida and I didn't have that outlet anymore.
Speaker D:And I was kind of, I guess a good way to put it would be at loose ends.
Speaker D:But the truth is that I was like cracking up.
Speaker D:And so I had to like.
Speaker D:I just started having these.
Speaker D:I started making dreams because I was sort of sitting home all day.
Speaker D:I didn't have a job.
Speaker D:And so I started making dreams out of like cut up little pieces of paper.
Speaker D:And I was like, oh, this looks, you know, it looks kind of cool.
Speaker D:And then I just made a bunch of them and.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:So that was the beginning of it.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:That's why in the relationship to the art with dreams, is it trying to like extract the visual abstraction of dreams or is it an attempt to interpret them and bring new meaning to them?
Speaker D:I do not interpret, so I will say it's an attempt to kind of take a picture of them or paint a picture of them.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:So it's like almost like a snapshot.
Speaker D:And I think it's almost like a journalistic practice where I'm just like reporting on what happened in this person's dream through using little torn up pieces of paper or using.
Speaker D:Now I've gotten more into like three dimensional objects, so where I'll actually make the object that's in the person's dream.
Speaker D:And, and I, I don't interpret them.
Speaker D:Like, I never really.
Speaker D:I won't say I don't care, but that's not.
Speaker D:I don't feel like that's my role.
Speaker D:My role is to sort of honor the dream and then whatever it means, that's your.
Speaker D:That's for you to figure out or psychologize.
Speaker B:That's actually like one of my favorite parts of your work for me personally is that you're like documenting, just documenting the imagery because it's almost like the imagery of people's dreams is already so outrage.
Speaker B:Like you don't need to do anything to the information, you don't need to interpret it or whatever.
Speaker B:And I love how you have the.
Speaker B:Is it Department of Dream collection.
Speaker D:Yep.
Speaker B:Tell us about that a little bit.
Speaker D:Well, that's, that's just the name of My art studio, it's the Department of Dream Collection.
Speaker D:And how that came about was I was in Philadelphia, and I saw this seal, and it said the Department of Streets.
Speaker D:And I just really liked it.
Speaker D:And I took a picture and I was like, that's awesome.
Speaker D:I want to work at the Department of Streets.
Speaker D:And then I just.
Speaker D:I had gotten.
Speaker D:Somebody gave me, like, a free magnet thing where you could spell stuff.
Speaker D:And so I was like, oh, okay, I'll be the Department of Dream Collection.
Speaker D:And it stuck.
Speaker D:So now it's.
Speaker D:It's my official studio name.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But then you also have an aspect of it where if there's an open studio night, you will take.
Speaker B:You will collect dreams from people.
Speaker D:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:Like in a journalistic way.
Speaker B:Yeah, like you were alluding to before.
Speaker B:Can you tell us about that process a little bit?
Speaker D:Sure.
Speaker D:So I do collect dreams.
Speaker D:I collect dreams at my studio on First Friday.
Speaker D:So if people come by, I write down their dreams.
Speaker D:I've had stands at the public market as part of the yards, where I will sit outside and give people fruit or vegetables in exchange for a dream.
Speaker D:And for that, I'm trying to make it sort of like a dreamlike experience where people could go home and be like, oh, I was at the public market, and this lady gave me a carrot.
Speaker D:And I told her a dream.
Speaker D:And for some reason, people always, like, pick carrots.
Speaker D:Because at first I had an assortment of stuff and like, hey, you can pick whatever you want.
Speaker D:And everybody wanted a carrot.
Speaker D:And then people would, like, walk away eating their carrot.
Speaker D:And so it was instant snack.
Speaker D:Yeah, it was like an instant snack.
Speaker C:They must be very grounding or something like, oh, this.
Speaker C:Like this.
Speaker C:This keeps me in reality.
Speaker B:While I'm talking about this abstraction dream in the unconscious.
Speaker A:There's a dirt pun.
Speaker A:Dirt pun in there somewhere, too.
Speaker A:I can't quite find it.
Speaker A:These dreams I'm curious about because you noticed this pattern that everyone picked out carrots.
Speaker A:But are there patterns in the types of dreams people have or the imagery that are in dreams?
Speaker A:Like, what are some common threads there?
Speaker D:Oh, for sure.
Speaker D:Well, I mean, there's some of the common ones that probably everybody knows about or has had.
Speaker D:Where you're in school and you don't have your homework or you don't know where your class is, you've got to take a test, and you don't just haven't studied for it.
Speaker D:So that one's super common.
Speaker D:And other ones.
Speaker D:Sometimes things come up where I'm surprised by it.
Speaker D:Like Big Bird.
Speaker D:I did one.
Speaker D:One dream collection Eventually, I can't remember if it was a first Friday, if it was a public market, but there were like three or four people that Big Bird was in their dream.
Speaker D:And in some.
Speaker D:In some cases he was like a frightening character, like they were trying to get away from him.
Speaker D:And in other cases, he was like more of a helpful, protective character.
Speaker D:And so I was like, oh, okay.
Speaker D:But I think that makes sense because it's like a big bird.
Speaker D:And so it's something that would stick in your head as a child, is something that would show up.
Speaker A:Big yellow bird.
Speaker B:It tells you how cemented that imagery is in the zeitgeist of Big Bird.
Speaker B:Like it's just coming up as an archetype.
Speaker A:Well, it's interesting how.
Speaker A:Yeah, it could to tell people various.
Speaker B:Things based on whether they were scared of Big Bird or loved Big Bird.
Speaker A:Or seen him as like a support mechanism or something like that.
Speaker B:Yeah, like him and Snuffleupagus were support mechanisms for me personally.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Snuffleupagus.
Speaker A:Oh my God, he's so great.
Speaker A:Any other pop culture references that come through?
Speaker D:Oh, sure.
Speaker D:Let's see.
Speaker D:There's a lot of times, celebrities, there will be dreams.
Speaker D:There's one dream about a person being Will Smith and then realizing that they have discovered the answer to the universe is one.
Speaker D:And so things like that, but they are Will Smith.
Speaker D:And then my husband also will dream that he's celebrities a lot of times, like, he'll wake up and he'll be like, I was Janet Jackson, but old Janet Jackson.
Speaker D:And I had to get on stage.
Speaker D:I had to like climb on stage, but I couldn't.
Speaker D:Cause my knee or something.
Speaker D:I couldn't get up on stage right correctly.
Speaker D:But then everybody was really supportive in the crowd.
Speaker D:But then he would be on stage and then he'd be singing like new ballads instead of the Janet Jackson hits.
Speaker D:And he was confused by that.
Speaker D:So a lot of times, like, celebrities will show up.
Speaker D:And in people's dreams, a lot of flying.
Speaker D:Flying is a major thing.
Speaker D:And I'm sure that's been been read.
Speaker A:You've talked about flying a lot.
Speaker B:Rolling flying dreams, I love them.
Speaker B:I haven't had them recently.
Speaker B:I've had more stressful dreams.
Speaker B:But I love it when I get flying dreams.
Speaker A:I mean, yeah, to go in that.
Speaker A:I mean, I'm going to talk about dreams a lot, but if, you know, I'm going to let Molly lead the art part.
Speaker A:But in the dreams part, like, do you see a common thread between what's maybe more a positive dream from someone's perspective versus, like, a negative dream from their perspective.
Speaker A:Like, is there any common threads in nightmares versus I don't know if there's a.
Speaker A:Just a dream, I guess.
Speaker D:Well, I think even the flying dreams can be.
Speaker D:They can be both.
Speaker D:And I think it sort of depends on where you are, where your psyche is like a dream, and then they can even switch.
Speaker D:Like, my son has a dream where he's excited, he's flying over the ocean, and he's like, oh, this is amazing.
Speaker D:I'm flying over the ocean.
Speaker D:But then on the other hand, it's like, oh, wait, what if this power wears off?
Speaker D:I'm doomed.
Speaker A:The panic sets in and you get in your head about it.
Speaker D:So there's like, partial.
Speaker D:Like, part of your brain is in reality still where it's like, wait a minute.
Speaker D:So this is.
Speaker D:You know, I'm not supposed to be flying, right?
Speaker D:And then sometimes there will be obstacles in the sky.
Speaker D:One woman gave me this dream that I loved where there was, like, a tall wall coming up out of the ocean and she couldn't go under it, so she had to fly around it.
Speaker D:And so she was flying around this wall.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:Like, really powerful imagery.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So what sticks out as you.
Speaker A:To you as, like, some of the powerful imagery that gets extracted into your work?
Speaker A:Like, are you picking out little pieces?
Speaker A:Are you picking out scenes?
Speaker A:What are you picking out?
Speaker D:Some of both.
Speaker D:So sometimes I'll just have an image that I really like.
Speaker D:Like, somebody dreamed they were flying in space and encountered an owl.
Speaker D:And they're just staring at the owl.
Speaker D:So I like that.
Speaker D:So I'll make that image.
Speaker D:And then sometimes there's a whole conceptual, like, conceptual object that I want to make.
Speaker D:So there was this one person who had a dream.
Speaker D:This, I remember, was at the public market.
Speaker D:I'll never forget it because it's one of my favorite dreams I've ever gotten.
Speaker D:They dreamed that they were at the movies and had to go to the bathroom, but all the bathroom stalls were taken.
Speaker D:And so.
Speaker D:Except for the last one.
Speaker D:And so they went into the last one and there was a toilet there, but instead of having a flush, it had puzzle pieces.
Speaker D:And so they were.
Speaker D:The puzzle pieces were, like, magenta and green and I think blue.
Speaker D:And they said they didn't know how to flush the toilet, but they're like, oh, well, I'll just push the one that's near the.
Speaker D:Where the flusher should be.
Speaker D:And it was the.
Speaker D:Is a direct quote.
Speaker D:Overflood the world and kill everyone button.
Speaker D:And.
Speaker A:Yeah, Yep.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker D:And I heard that, and I was like, I'm making this toilet.
Speaker D:I just was like, I have to make this.
Speaker D:So I'm that.
Speaker D:So it's.
Speaker D:There's an actual toilet, and then there's actual puzzle pieces that are on that I've, like, affixed to the toilet.
Speaker D:And that's going to be one of the objects that's in the show.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:I love that.
Speaker A:The weight of decision.
Speaker B:And I love that it's an actual toilet.
Speaker B:Like that.
Speaker B:Your work is starting to go from just being 2D to being these practical 3D objects.
Speaker D:And shout out to my husband Rajesh, who carried the toilet up the flight of stairs at Roko for me so that I can make this.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Hell, yeah.
Speaker A:That's why you have a partner to carry the toilet.
Speaker B:And that's a great transition, actually, because you have a show coming up called Other People's Dreams, right At upstairs in the Rochester Contemporary Art Center.
Speaker B:Do you want to tell us a little bit about that, how that process is going, what it's about?
Speaker D:Sure.
Speaker D:So the show is other people's dreams, and it's just about other people's dreams, and it's the fruit of four years of dream collections.
Speaker D:So out of the.
Speaker D:I don't know.
Speaker D:I don't know.
Speaker D:Is it hundreds?
Speaker D:Yeah, it's at least 100 dreams that I've collected over the past four years.
Speaker D:I picked out 44 elements to recreate or to kind of honor with collage, and they'll be in the upstairs gallery at Roco.
Speaker B:That's awesome.
Speaker B:Including a toilet?
Speaker D:Including a toilet.
Speaker D:I don't want to.
Speaker D:I think.
Speaker D:I'm pretty sure that's going to be my favorite one, but we'll see because I'm still making some of them.
Speaker A:Since you're in this unique position of gathering all of these dreams, how is your.
Speaker A:Are your dreams impacted by all of these dreams?
Speaker D:Yes, I would say so, in that I sometimes will dream about collecting dreams, so I'll have dreams about myself as a dream collector.
Speaker D:So I think that part of my identity has sunk into my unconscious mind.
Speaker D:And then I still have, like.
Speaker D:I still have pretty crazy dreams I've always had.
Speaker D:But that's not new.
Speaker D:I've always had pretty crazy dreams.
Speaker A:Given that all of this started with alligators with baby heads, right?
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I think that gives us a glimpse of.
Speaker B:Have you ever made that in a collage, the baby heads and alligators?
Speaker D:I've done that, actually.
Speaker D:I've actually done.
Speaker D:The first time I did it, I didn't like It.
Speaker D:And then I had to do another one.
Speaker D:So I did another one and I like the second one.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:And I used my actual daughter as her baby head and put that on the.
Speaker D:On the alligators.
Speaker B:What an amazing legacy.
Speaker A:I mean, that's a whole thing unto itself, right?
Speaker A:Just making all sorts of different people into the baby heads.
Speaker A:That would be pretty interesting.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:But I'm going to.
Speaker D:That's a good idea, actually.
Speaker D:I'm going to have to work with.
Speaker A:Just a Vladimir Putin alligator.
Speaker D:Is it possible to source an infant photo of Vladimir Putin?
Speaker A:Make it the adult person?
Speaker B:We can approximate it.
Speaker C:I think that's the only valid use of AI.
Speaker B:I was literally about to say that.
Speaker B:I was like, yep, that is.
Speaker B:That's the valid.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker C:It's okay.
Speaker C:That.
Speaker C:That's fine.
Speaker C:I think that's a good reason.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker B:As she reads her interview questions from Chat.
Speaker B:GPT.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Endorsed by Stromy.
Speaker A:Presented by the Lunchador Network.
Speaker B:So why.
Speaker B:Well, I know you kind of touched on it a little bit because you talked about not really being an artsy kid and not really liking to draw in that thing, that process.
Speaker B:Is that kind of why you move towards collage and mixed media?
Speaker B:Or was it just because it was like the available material when you were at that moment of your life?
Speaker D:Yeah, I think it was because it was the available material that was at that moment.
Speaker D:And I don't.
Speaker D:And my sister in law, and her name was Ingrid, unfortunately, she's.
Speaker D:She's since passed.
Speaker D:May she rest in peace.
Speaker D:But she was a collage artist, and when she got sick, I made a collage for her.
Speaker D:And that was the first time I'd ever done that, really, I think, unless, you know, account like grade school.
Speaker D:And I enjoyed that process and so it sort of showed me that I could do it.
Speaker D:And so then I think when I had some time on my hands, like 10 years later, then I went back to that.
Speaker B:Mm, that totally makes sense.
Speaker A:Is there anything.
Speaker A:I'm gonna keep going back to asking questions about dreams.
Speaker B:He's like, tell me everything you know about dreams.
Speaker A:Well, it's just such an interesting position to be in.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:To put yourself in.
Speaker A:So I'm curious if there are any.
Speaker A:If there's anything.
Speaker A:I mean, do you go into.
Speaker A:Do you see.
Speaker A:Do you like, walk up to a person or a person walks up to you?
Speaker A:And do you feel like you've got a sense at this point of what kinds of dreams a person might be.
Speaker A:Be presenting to you, or is it always a surprise every time.
Speaker D:Always a surprise.
Speaker D:Always a surprise.
Speaker D:I mean, well, now there's.
Speaker D:Now I've been doing this long enough that I know there are some people that are gonna just have killer dreams.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker D:Like, I don't know if you guys know John Gary.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Just killer dreams.
Speaker D:And I'll, like, interrupt him at openings and be like, hey, you got any new dreams lately and things?
Speaker A:You got some of them dreams for me?
Speaker D:Some of them dreams didn't.
Speaker B:John Gary.
Speaker B:Was it John who made a replica of your type of style of thing for an artsy arts member show?
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:Somebody made like, a thing, and at first I thought it was yours, and then I realized it wasn't yours.
Speaker B:It was just like a tribute to your work.
Speaker D:Oh, no, I think that was mine.
Speaker D:You're talking about the.
Speaker D:It was like the 3D Bill Murray thing.
Speaker D:Yeah, it was like a shoebox diorama type thing.
Speaker D:Yeah, that was mine.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I loved that piece.
Speaker D:Oh, thanks.
Speaker D:I actually saw you put on your Instagram story that it was the most unhinged thing you'd ever seen.
Speaker D:And I was like, yes, like, in the best way.
Speaker D:Well, no, no, I take that as a compliment.
Speaker D:I wanted to screenshot it, but I don't know how to.
Speaker D:Like, I thought I could go back and find it again, but I couldn't find it.
Speaker B:Oh, man.
Speaker B:I'm sure I could find it maybe and send it to you, but yeah, I loved it.
Speaker B:What was the process behind that piece, now that we're talking about it?
Speaker D:Sure, sure.
Speaker D:So I can tell you.
Speaker D:So that dream.
Speaker D:So John basically dreamed that he was in the movies and was going to the concession stand, but at the concession stand, Bill Murray was there, and he jumped up on top of the concession stand and started just throwing ketchup packets at people.
Speaker D:And then John, I think there was a giant ketchup packet berm in the movie theater, and he fell over it.
Speaker D:And then during this ketchup packet war, because people started throwing ketchup back at Bill Murray.
Speaker D:And it was just the great Bill Murray ketchup war.
Speaker D:And so I was like, all right, I gotta make this.
Speaker D:And so it's just.
Speaker D:That was my first, like, really, really big three dimensional dream.
Speaker D:And I made my whole, like, outside studio area.
Speaker D:I made a fake movie theater with fake fake movies, like dreams.
Speaker D:They were dreams, but they were movie posters of other people's dreams.
Speaker B:Oh, my gosh, it's amazing.
Speaker D:And then.
Speaker D:And Rajesh brought a popcorn.
Speaker D:So he carried a big popcorn machine up all the stairs to this.
Speaker D:So I kept like, real popcorn and it was like.
Speaker D:And then I got all the.
Speaker D:I could collected ketchup packets over a year, and people could throw ketchup packets at Bill Murray because there was like a Bill Murray dummy.
Speaker B:That's amazing.
Speaker C:That's what most people are referring to when they talk about the Great War.
Speaker C:They're thinking about.
Speaker C:They're thinking about the Bill Murray ketchup wars.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, a lot.
Speaker B:A lot.
Speaker C:See, this is a problem with public education.
Speaker C:Sometimes they don't educate their children about dreams, about the great ketchup wars.
Speaker C:We've lost so much history.
Speaker B:We've lost so much history.
Speaker A:We just get so separated from what's Instagram.
Speaker D:But you were talking about themes.
Speaker D:Like, people really do have very elaborate war themes.
Speaker A:Oh, interesting.
Speaker D:So another dreamer dreamed, had recurring dreams that there was a polar bear Spartan war, and then the polar bears and Spartans moved on these, like, tracks, almost like railroad tracks or monorail tracks.
Speaker D:And that was how they fought.
Speaker D:And that was a dream for many, many, like, recurring years.
Speaker B:Oh, so it was polar bears versus Spartans and not like polar bear Spartans?
Speaker D:No, not.
Speaker D:Because it could be that.
Speaker D:But I have to be specific.
Speaker C:So that's what people are talking about.
Speaker C:You know, they never stop thinking about those things.
Speaker B:History.
Speaker A:I feel like people should be sharing more of these thought than the thoughts they share on the Internet already.
Speaker B:I agree with you.
Speaker A:We would have so much more of a fun time.
Speaker C:They're equally based in factual information.
Speaker A:Yeah, totally.
Speaker A:Totally true.
Speaker A:All of it's just true.
Speaker A:It's fantastic truths.
Speaker B:It's so good.
Speaker D:Well, what's this thing?
Speaker D:Somebody said a dream is real for as long as it lasts.
Speaker D:What more can you say about life?
Speaker B:That's really poignant.
Speaker B:That's a good place to take a break.
Speaker C:It's pretty good.
Speaker B:So I can cry.
Speaker B:Welcome back.
Speaker B:So, Erica, what's your dream project like?
Speaker B:Not your, you know, dream project like what we've been talking about, but your big, lofty goal, dream project?
Speaker D:Well, I think my goal and something that I would really, really like to do is be able to put words with my artwork because I had mentioned that I was a.
Speaker D:Well, I still am a writer.
Speaker D:That's my professional job.
Speaker D:And I think.
Speaker D:But I think that I've been so literal in what I've written about as a journalist.
Speaker D:And now I'm the writing director for the Avera Institute of Justice, which is an organization that seeks to end mass incarceration.
Speaker D:So it's very serious.
Speaker D:So I've used words in a very serious way and in a very factual way.
Speaker D:And so I would like to be able to get back to using words sort of for fun or for.
Speaker D:To describe the dreams.
Speaker D:And I've tried to.
Speaker D:I've tried to write, you know, use some creativity with the dream description, but I wouldn't say that it's risen to the level of, like, excellence that I would aspire to.
Speaker D:So my dream would be to one day have something where I was both really, really excited about the artwork, the visual, and also really, really excited about the words that went along with it.
Speaker D:And I've tried numerous times and had numerous failures where I've tried to integrate, like, put the words over the collage using translucent paper, but then you can't read the words, and also you can't see the collage that doesn't work.
Speaker D:So I'm working on it, but I feel like I'm.
Speaker D:How old am I?
Speaker D:44.
Speaker D:So I've got another, like, couple decades where hopefully I will work this out.
Speaker C:So just to tie back to.
Speaker C:So sounds like your.
Speaker C:Your day job has a lot of, you know, there's.
Speaker C:It's a weightiness to doing that.
Speaker C:Can you throw a quick plug out for the organization if people want to follow about what you're doing in the day job?
Speaker D:Oh, sure.
Speaker D:It's the Vera Institute of Justice, and it's a nonprofit that is based in New York city that for 60 years has been trying to decrease the numbers of people that are, you know, incarcerated and also work for immigrants rights, which is very, very important right now.
Speaker C:So do you find that this kind of practice is, you know, beneficial to, you know, decompress and work on this stuff?
Speaker D:100%.
Speaker D:100%.
Speaker D:Being able to sort of retreat into the dream world or live in the dream world a little bit definitely helps me just see that there's.
Speaker D:And I also think that the.
Speaker D:The dream world is a place where the imagination is untethered and anything is possible.
Speaker D:And.
Speaker D:Yeah, and that's what I always say that I like about dreams, is that the rules of time, space, and logic don't apply.
Speaker D:And I need to believe that that's possible because it's.
Speaker D:There's so many things in the waking world that are so bad and seem so intractable, and this seems like the only place that you can.
Speaker D:You can have the level of hope that you need is in a dream state.
Speaker A:Well, what I find interesting also is that you've brought dreams to life.
Speaker A:You've created physical spaces where people can throw ketchup packets at Bill Murray.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:So you've already proven that first of all that a dream can become real.
Speaker A:And so it's interesting to see how, like, I think about this.
Speaker A:I think about how we might look at a video game or something.
Speaker A:We say, like, well, that's not real.
Speaker A:Or we look at a movie and we're like, that's not real.
Speaker A:It's like, well, people are playing pretend.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:But, like, real or not real, I think those lines are getting blurrier by the second in terms of what we see online.
Speaker A:Like, we look at stuff on our phones all the time, and somehow we take that into our brain and assume that's real.
Speaker A:But, like, it's.
Speaker A:It's becoming real because it gets into our mind and then we act it out in the real world.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like, I have no direct relationship.
Speaker A:Relationship with the immigration aspect of things that are happening right now.
Speaker A:But, like, I have.
Speaker A:I basically take it in as a belief that it's true that it's happening, because I see stories.
Speaker A:I hear stories, I hear people talking about it.
Speaker A:That's how it becomes real to me.
Speaker A:And then people make art about that sort of thing.
Speaker A:And there's no reason why we can't do that about joyful experiences and joyful dreams and all sorts of various experiences that we have.
Speaker A:I remember there was this one time, it was one.
Speaker A:This one interview, I think it was with Keanu Reeves or something.
Speaker A:It was when that latest Matrix movie came out, and he was.
Speaker A:Somebody told him that this little girl was told about the Matrix, and she watched the first movie, the Matrix, and was describing it as, like, this falling away of reality, and you're not sure what's real and what's fake.
Speaker A:And the little girl was just like, it's all real.
Speaker A:And he was like, that's so awesome.
Speaker A:Because, like, it is in my mind, it's all real.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So it's just.
Speaker A:You're bringing it into the tangible.
Speaker D:Tangible.
Speaker A:Yeah, but it's all real.
Speaker D:I believe that, too.
Speaker D:Like, I fully believe that dreams are real.
Speaker D:I don't say that because then people think you're crazy, but I think that it's as real as any other thing, because when something passes away into a memory, like you have a memory of a dream, you have a memory of an event.
Speaker D:To me, it's.
Speaker D:Both of them are things that are in your head and they don't exist anymore.
Speaker D:The only thing that's here now is this very moment.
Speaker A:I think people tend to describe dreams also as, like, typically surreal.
Speaker A:But are there people who have pretty straightforward, visually vivid dreams, like the equivalent of the drawing, the bowl of fruit or do they have like more of a realistic kind of grounded dreams that come through also?
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:And, you know, if I.
Speaker D:If I ever really make the department of dream collection into a actual entity, I would like to file the dreams and say, like, these are realistic, like hyper realistic dreams.
Speaker D:And then sometimes people don't like those because they're just mundane dreams.
Speaker D:Like, I was going to Wegmans and I bought almonds, and that's the dream, right?
Speaker D:And then you wake up and it's like, that wasn't fun at all, you.
Speaker B:Know, and then I can do anything in this dream world.
Speaker B:And I chose to go to Wegmans and buy almonds.
Speaker B:I can do that out here.
Speaker C:I mean, they say you should.
Speaker C:This is a tour.
Speaker C:It's a tourist destination.
Speaker C:Destination.
Speaker C:And side note, salt and vinegar almonds are pretty awesome.
Speaker C:So let's slow our rolls about saying almonds aren't fun.
Speaker A:I know, right?
Speaker A:It's all about how you approach it.
Speaker A:You could either say Big Bird is an evil entity or it's something that supports you.
Speaker A:And I think you could say the same about almonds.
Speaker D:I mean, you could have a person.
Speaker D:Well, there's one.
Speaker D:I think this is also a John Gary dream where he dreamed that like a.
Speaker D:He had to take a cat outside because the cat was dead and he had to put it in the garbage.
Speaker D:But then the cat resurrected and then he came back into like a business meeting, and then the man that was talking was a peanut.
Speaker D:But you could like transpose that to almond.
Speaker D:And then that's.
Speaker D:Yeah, that's the dream almond dream.
Speaker C:Then it makes sense completely.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, it all comes back around.
Speaker A:Yeah, it all comes back.
Speaker B:Do you keep like a dream journal yourself?
Speaker D:Oh, yeah.
Speaker D:Well, okay, so I.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:This is interesting to me.
Speaker B:Even more so because I don't remember a lot of my dreams.
Speaker B:Like, it's kind of rare that I do.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:So on days that I do, they're so vivid that I.
Speaker B:I'm just like, oh, my God.
Speaker B:But most days I don't.
Speaker B:So this is all fascinating.
Speaker B:So dream journal.
Speaker D:So I.
Speaker D:Okay, so I am very disorganized, I would say.
Speaker D:And so I have.
Speaker D:Instead of a journal, I have like thousands of little pieces of paper and like things written on receipts.
Speaker D:And I have a bunch of them on those six by six cards because I will take those and write dreams on them from other people when I would.
Speaker D:When I first started interviewing people about their dreams.
Speaker D:So I more have like a huge pile of random papers on which dreams are written.
Speaker D:So I do not have, like, one book for this.
Speaker D:For this show.
Speaker D:I did write up the 44 dreams that I had selected.
Speaker D:And so they're in like a Google Doc, and those are kind of organized, but as far as my filing system, it's not that good.
Speaker D:But I wish that I would like to sort them, you know, and then see if there were any commonalities and things like that.
Speaker D:One day when I.
Speaker D:When I retire, I guess you retire.
Speaker B:You could get a whole other PhD just studying the dreams, probably, like, what patterns arise if you chose to do that.
Speaker A:You know, Jungian analysis is a thing, and there's all sorts of dream interpreters and things like that.
Speaker A:It's a.
Speaker A:It's like a casual thing for me.
Speaker A:It's really interesting.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:How did you choose the 44 dreams?
Speaker D:Oh, they're just ones I liked.
Speaker D:I mean, there was no.
Speaker D:There's no.
Speaker D:Same thing with my work.
Speaker D:It's not.
Speaker D:There's not really like a.
Speaker D:I don't know.
Speaker D:There isn't really a.
Speaker A:It's not too heavy.
Speaker D:It's not a heavy.
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker D:So I try to keep my.
Speaker D:The department of dream collection is a very light place.
Speaker D:It's just like, I like these ones, and I chose 44 because I'm 44 years old.
Speaker D:And so it's just like kind of picking things out of the.
Speaker D:At random.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker D:And then some of them.
Speaker D:Some of them, it was just like, I have to make this, like the toilet dream that has to be made.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:And then some of them, it was just like, oh, well, you know, a yellow canoe driving down the street.
Speaker D:That probably would look cool.
Speaker D:So I'll make a collage of that.
Speaker A:Aside from the alligator with baby heads dream, is there a dream that you've had that you've woken up and it's like, decided the trajectory of your life.
Speaker D:Decided the trajectory of my life.
Speaker D:Whoa.
Speaker B:Whoa.
Speaker B:Dude.
Speaker A:Whoa.
Speaker D:I know because I still say I don't really.
Speaker D:I don't know if I know yet the trajectory of my life.
Speaker D:I would love to have such a dream.
Speaker D:I did have another dream that I felt was fairly significant.
Speaker D:That had to do with, like, change and evolution, I think.
Speaker D:So I dreamed that I reached into my body and pulled out my spine.
Speaker D:And then I was standing there looking at my spine.
Speaker D:And I can still, like.
Speaker D:I can still see this image of myself holding my spine.
Speaker D:And then it was just this feeling of certainty, like, oh, okay, it's time for me to turn into a candle.
Speaker D:And this was like me pulling my spine out.
Speaker D:Was Just part of the transformation of a Erica into a candle.
Speaker D:And I woke up, and it was like, oh, that's weird.
Speaker D:Why did I dream that?
Speaker D:But then going back to it then after.
Speaker D:Like, shortly after that, I went through a period of, like, really, really big transition when I left the newspaper.
Speaker D:And a lot of my identity was, like, tied up in being a newspaper reporter.
Speaker D:And I didn't.
Speaker D:I didn't have that anymore.
Speaker D:And it was kind of like losing my spine.
Speaker D:Like, I was.
Speaker D:My spine is out.
Speaker D:And then.
Speaker D:But then it's like, you don't have to necessarily worry about that because there's something else coming.
Speaker D:And I was supposed to be a candle, and then I was supposed to, you know, get this.
Speaker D:This other job that I have and get into the art more seriously and.
Speaker D:Or not even more seriously at all.
Speaker D:Like, start doing art in a serious manner.
Speaker D:So that.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:So I think that one.
Speaker D:I didn't know it at the time.
Speaker D:I couldn't see it.
Speaker D:But looking backwards, it's like, I can see what that dream meant.
Speaker A:Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker A:I mean, Molly, you didn't you say you don't remember your dreams very often, but are there any that you, like, haven't let go of because it was so poignant?
Speaker B:I'm sure there have been.
Speaker B:They're not coming to mind right now.
Speaker B:I've definitely had.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:But I know, like, conceptually, I've had seasons in my life where I have had a recurring dream, some sort that will visit me for, like, months at a time.
Speaker D:Oh.
Speaker B: that was happening, like, in: Speaker B:Like, there was.
Speaker B:It was just like a kind of recurring.
Speaker B:Almost like.
Speaker B:Like, visitor.
Speaker B:Like a.
Speaker B:And like a spirit entity almost in my dreams, but it would come up in different forms, so there's not.
Speaker B:I'm always fascinated with, like, the most minute, concrete details that people talk about, like the colors with the toilet.
Speaker B:I was like, I can.
Speaker B:I don't remember those details, but I almost more remember, like, feelings.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:That I have very visceral feelings in my body.
Speaker B:And so.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker B:But then it's difficult for me to put it towards.
Speaker B:So it can't really describe it.
Speaker B:Like, it's just like a visitation that gave me assurance of, like, confidence in the path that I was choosing next.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:What about you, Stromi?
Speaker A:Do you have anything that's, like, recurring or anything that's been kind of, I don't know, in your craw for much of your life?
Speaker C:Stress?
Speaker B:Oh, no.
Speaker D:Stress dreams.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:It's almost always.
Speaker C:If I If I remember anything, it's almost always that is just kind of like that, you know, the recurring.
Speaker C:Oh, I know I have something I have to wake up for in the morning.
Speaker C:As soon as I know I have a process I need to do.
Speaker C:And it's sitting in the back of my head, like it's the processing of it.
Speaker C:And of course, since that's the way my brain generally works, is just churning, just churning over and over and over again.
Speaker C:But that.
Speaker C:That's.
Speaker C:I think that's pretty typical too, is.
Speaker C:But also kind of a challenge to work with and draw, I assume, too, because I'm sure you get a lot of people talking about stress dreams because it's, like, certainly not unique to me, that's for sure.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker A:I usually have, like, three themes that come up with my dreams.
Speaker D:Oh, what are they?
Speaker A:They tend to be either being chased by someone.
Speaker D:Okay.
Speaker A:Which is a typical kind of Jungian analysis.
Speaker A:Like, if you're being chased by someone of the opposite gender, you're.
Speaker A:It's usually some relationship to an inner psyche of some kind.
Speaker A:So I've.
Speaker A:I've literally had dreams of like a sort of Ronda Rousey femme.
Speaker A:Femme fatale, Terminator, like, chasing me through the streets with a shotgun.
Speaker A:And I'm just continuing to try to hide from her throughout the dream.
Speaker A:And no matter what I do.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:No matter what I do, she just keeps catching up to me kind of thing.
Speaker A:The other is a.
Speaker A:Is like relational dreams.
Speaker A:I've.
Speaker A:My most vivid one was having a full relationship with someone in the dream.
Speaker A:There's that one Star Trek episode.
Speaker A:I forget what.
Speaker A:What it's called.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, it's in, like, the first season.
Speaker B:But Picard basically, like, lives an entire life on a different reality.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then comes back to the present moment he was at before that.
Speaker B:Like, living an entire lifetime in a dream is wild.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I didn't live an entire lifetime, but it was more like a.
Speaker A:It's more like a movie.
Speaker A:It was more like a romantic comedy kind of thing where I was spending time with a person, someone I'd never met before, but I was clearly, like.
Speaker A:Had an intimate relationship with.
Speaker A:And we were just walking through what felt like a Mediterranean sort of beachside sort of dock area.
Speaker A:And we were just out hanging out and spending time together, like, kind of arm and arm.
Speaker A:And you just felt that there was, like, a long relationship there.
Speaker A:And when I woke up, like, that was gone.
Speaker A:I've never experienced that dream ever again.
Speaker A:It's like mourning the loss of an Actual relationship, which was a really interesting feeling for a few days after that happened.
Speaker A:And then the last one, I wouldn't say was a theme, but it kind of fits into the being chased one, I guess is the most vivid that I can remember is when I was a kid, I was outside in our apartment complex and went over to the sort of the Main street area, and it was dark, and there were just street lights, and I saw bats come out of the.
Speaker A:The tallest tree.
Speaker A:And I was just kind of watching the bats fly by.
Speaker A:And then one kept swooping down towards me, and it got in my face.
Speaker A:And as it got closer to my face, I realized it was Count Chocula and that guy.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:No wonder you're so scared of Count Chocolate.
Speaker D:I love that one.
Speaker D:Wait, are you scared of Count Chocolate?
Speaker B:Legitimately is.
Speaker D:Wait, were you afraid of him before this bat?
Speaker A:I don't think so.
Speaker A:I think the dream created the phobia.
Speaker D:Yeah, I love that.
Speaker A:Which is, like, in reality, it's, like, not that big.
Speaker A:Like, if I see the box, I'm like, okay.
Speaker A:But it's a little bit of an animosity, like.
Speaker A:Yeah, I know.
Speaker A:I know what you're up to, Mr.
Speaker A:Chocolate Vampire Guy.
Speaker A:Are you outside of your mind?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:So can Erica make a piece of that one?
Speaker B:If she wants?
Speaker A:Please buy any of those.
Speaker A:If there's anything that.
Speaker A:That strikes your imagination, you have full permission and consent to have at it.
Speaker C:All of the seasons of a romantic comedy.
Speaker C:You know, first.
Speaker C:First you're not sure, it's a little oil and water.
Speaker C:Then you get together, then something happens to bring you apart, and miraculously, due to everybody else seeing that you're destined to be together, it ends up great.
Speaker A:It's really me and Count Chocula on a date in the Mediterranean being chased by Ronda Rousey.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And then I think that you.
Speaker B:A bat.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's actually what happened.
Speaker C:I think that was the plot of Mamma Mia.
Speaker C:I never saw it, but I'm pretty sure that's what it was.
Speaker D:I love that, though.
Speaker D:Like, you know, I was talking about wanting to write something, like writing a sort of short story using elements of that entire.
Speaker D:All three of those dreams would be so fun.
Speaker A:Yeah, by all means.
Speaker B:I feel like we could keep on talking about dreams forever, but wrapping this particular episode up, maybe we'll have a part two.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:Is there any.
Speaker B:If you could give anyone listening a permission slip of their own, like, creative, personal, or otherwise.
Speaker B:What would it say?
Speaker D:A permission slip?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Ooh, what would it say?
Speaker D:It would say dream big.
Speaker D:I know that's cheesy because I'm the dream person, but that's what I'd say.
Speaker D:Or follow your dreams or remember your dreams.
Speaker A:Well, it's like you said earlier, there's a limitless quality to it.
Speaker A:And even though we talked about this dream up, I was hoping Stromi at the end would just say, dream, dream, dream, dream, dream, dream, dream, dream, dream, dream.
Speaker C:I was thinking of the Rory Orbison song.
Speaker C:I don't know what you guys are.
Speaker A:Thinking, but, you know, we talked about this idea of sort of just this merging of what we perceive as reality versus what's in our head.
Speaker A:And it's all real, right?
Speaker A:So why not dream big or.
Speaker D:Oh, wait.
Speaker D:Or live in your dream?
Speaker C:That's pretty good.
Speaker B:Living your dreams, y' all.
Speaker A:Yeah, don't take that, Nike.
Speaker B:Where can people find you if they want to follow you online?
Speaker D:Oh, my Instagram is ericalikesalligators, and I do not have a website because I don't like trying to make a website.
Speaker B:I love that for you.
Speaker D:I tried one time.
Speaker D:I was like, ugh, eventually, one day.
Speaker D:But then, if you want to see my show, which I hope you will, it's at Roko on June 6, opening from 6 to 9.
Speaker D:It's the first Friday, and then it'll be open the two Saturdays following that.
Speaker B:Other people's dreams.
Speaker A:Other people's dreams.
Speaker B:Thanks for coming on the show today.
Speaker D:Thank you so much.
Speaker D:This was fun.
Speaker A:Yeah, good times.
Speaker C:This has been a presentation of the lunchroom or podcast network.
Speaker C:Difficult fruits to draw.
Speaker C:The rambutan.
Speaker C:Imagine a thousand tiny wiggly hairs.
Speaker C:Yeah, no thanks.
Speaker C:Good luck capturing that fuzzy chaos.
Speaker C:The durian spikes.
Speaker C:So many spikes.
Speaker C:Each one a tiny commitment to pointy detail.
Speaker C:Not to mention the intense smell and the Brazilian yabuti kaba.
Speaker C:Picture this.
Speaker C:Smooth black spheres clinging directly to bark.
Speaker C:It's like drawing a pustule dotted tree.
Speaker C:Not sure you're ready for that.
Speaker C:Common drawing.
Speaker C:People.
